Mark Meloy:
Hello, I'm Mark Meloy, CEO of First Business Bank. I'd like to welcome you to another episode of the First Business Bank podcast. Today we are discussing current marketing trends and best practices that business leaders should consider as they navigate changing buyer behavior. I'm joined by a distinguished group of marketing and advertising experts, and I'll have each of them introduce themselves to kick off our discussion today. Ed, we'll start with you.
Ed Peck:
Good afternoon, I'm Ed Peck with Filament. We're a full service marketing agency based here in Madison, Wisconsin. Uh, focused on agriculture. We work with companies and clients across, around the globe actually. Um, and helping reach producers, uh, and anyone touching the food system.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Fritz?
Fritz Grutzner:
Hi, Mark, thanks for having me today. I'm the, I'm Fritz Grutzner, I'm the President and Founder of Brangarten. We're a locally based company, but we work with global brands as well as local companies, and local nonprofits. Um, and we, we do market research and brand strategy. And the easy way to think about that is we simply help brands and companies tell their story better.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Sara?
Sara Kiley:
Hey guys, good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me, uh, join in this podcast. Um, I'm really excited to be a part of this. Um, my name is Sara Kiley. I'm the Digital Operations Manager, um, at Midwest Family. And we're, uh, a business, or company that helps other businesses build comprehensive marketing plans. Uh, I also have over 15 years of experience, um, in traditional marketing, especially radio, because we also own eight radio stations, uh, in Madison.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Tom?
Tom Dott:
Hey, good afternoon. I'm Tom Dott. I'm a Commercial Banking Relationship manager with First Business Bank. Been, uh, in commercial banking for, uh, about 30+ years specializing in, in closely held family businesses and, and uh, really excited to be a part of the conversation.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Well, let's get started. Fritz, I'm gonna point the first question at you. Um, could you just, uh, kinda get us started here as we kick this off with your perspective of trends and best practices maybe prior to the pandemic and highlight how things have changed?
Fritz Grutzner:
Sure. Well, let me start with things that haven't changed. I mean, marketing has always been about finding and engaging customers to get them to buy y- your product or service. Um, and even prior to the pandemic things were changing pretty dramatically. Um, I think marketing has gotten much much more complex as marketing, uh, directors now have to manage social media and SEO and inbound marketing and customer experience management. So, it's, it's become much more complex and I think the pandemic really, uh, just accelerated that. All of a sudden now, uh, you can't have your, you know, your person to person contact as much. So much of it went digital.
Fritz Grutzner:
Um, so it's, it's really shifted, uh, dramatically. Uh, if you just look at our company, you know, we would do a lot of market research previously where we would try to recruit response to a central facility, say, in Chicago or New York or London. And then we would go and do those interviews and, and, you know, then report out on the findings. You know, we can't do that anymore. And we don't do it anymore. All, all our interviews, now, are done virtually through Zoom. And, um, one, one nice benefit of that, for us, is I, I don't have to travel nearly as much. And we're able pretty much to do, uh, everything we used to do. Maybe, you know, maybe it's not perfect but even, even facilitating workshops, you know? We've managed to figure out a way to do that online now versus in person.
Mark Meloy:
Good. Thanks. Ed, are you seeing a change in the types of projects your clients are working on or asking about?
Ed Peck:
Well, I would echo what Fritz said, as, as far as, um, a lot of things really haven't changed. Maybe some things have accelerated. And specific to your question, Mark, I think, uh, what we have seen is definitely more of a shift towards, um, uh, ways to reach, uh, a specific customer, more, uh, fine tuned target marketing. Um, and really working with those customers, sort of replacing the first [inaudible 00:05:21] touch, um, that we've lost through, um, COVID with reduced travel, reduced events, and activities.
Ed Peck:
So, the biggest changes, uh, coming from a lot of those more, uh, expected interactions, trade show events, um, uh, meetings, uh, with customer groups, um, et cetera. Uh, just finding different ways to communicate with them. So, a lot more, a lot more digital, a lot more, uh, uh, social, uh, marketing and, and then trying to get a little creative with one on ones.
Mark Meloy:
Good, thanks. Sara, um, talk about digital versus traditional and marketing channels and tactics. What are you seeing that's surprising to you right now?
Sara Kiley:
Yeah, so I'll, uh, first kinda, uh, initially started talking about how, um, there's so many options and there's, there's so many different marketing choices for everybody out there, right? Every, every year we constantly hear, uh, the choices. So, where you want to advertise? You know, it's more than it's ever been before. There's hundreds, thousands of options. Um, but I think all of the tools, whether you're looking at tradigital, or traditional or digital, all of the tools can be beneficial, can be successful, what it comes down to is really who are you trying to target and who are you trying to reach, and if you understand that customer and, and who your client is, all ... Whether it's traditional, digital, it can be successful for you.
Sara Kiley:
But it's so important, I think, that you understand exactly who you're targeting and not just, you know, the I want to reach adults, you know, 25-54. Where can you find those people? Where are they looking? What social networks are they on? You know? What pages do they follow? Things like that. If you're really digging deep into who your customer is, any tool that you choose ... Radio, online, whatever it is, can be successful. Um, and I would say when, when talking about things that I see that are, are surprising, um, I think there's still the, there's still some businesses out there that aren't understanding or, or really taking advantage of the benefit of their website and their online presence. And websites are, are way, have become way more than just, "I just need something up there," right?
Sara Kiley:
It needs to be user friendly. Um, your marketing messages all need to match. If you're saying one thing over here in traditional and TV or wherever, you know, you're sending the message, let's make sure that it exists with on your w-, within your website, within your social networks. So, everything is consistent. We need a lot of consistencies so people hear the message, they hear it multiple times, and then that's when your clients are going to react and, and reach out to you when they need you for your service or product.
Mark Meloy:
Yeah, those are great points. Thanks for making that. Tom, you're working with a wide range of companies and, and see how they're doing business. What sticks out to you in terms of what business people, uh, are, uh, thinking these days and, and, uh, kinda paying attention to?
Tom Dott:
Yeah, uh, it, it's interesting because I think through, through the pandemic and when everything changed and people were shutting down and they were closed, they were open ... I think what a lot of it's now come down to is people are really focusing on maintaining their relationships. And, and doing that in different ways. And that's where I think, you know, marketing and branding is, is so mission critical, especially now, is, is they, they want their customers to know, "We're still here. We're stronger than ever. We're here. We're ready to serve you." But they still need to be visible and, and they still need to be, um, relative to what's going on out there. And so I think more so now than ever it's just that, that, that presence of knowing that you're there and, and, and not, you know, not curling up in a ball in the corner and, and hiding as opposed to being out there in the forefront and letting people know that, hey, we're still here. Uh, we're ready for ya and we want to take care of ya.
Ed Peck:
[crosstalk 00:09:13] add onto Tom's comments, we're, we're definitely finding with our clients, uh, more than ever the customer wants to know that they're there. Wants to know that they can believe in something. I think if we all learned anything this year it's that day to day unpredictable things are happening, um, we don't know what's gonna come next. Um, and so we're managing ourselves the best that we can. And if you think about, as Sara said, about putting yourself in the, the, uh, shoes of the people that you want to talk to and understanding how they're feeling about things that truly ou- are out of their control right now.
Ed Peck:
They want as many other things on the other side of what they can rely upon and brands and companies and products and services that you can continuously deliver on and remind them that they, that you're there for them. Remind them that they have, uh, they can trust, um, you to provide the same quality or the same service is more important now than ever. At least that's what we're finding with our clients and that's really what we're working towards in our 2021 marketing plans.
Fritz Grutzner:
Well, Mark, if I could just build on that, I think that, uh, you know, the, uh, it's more important now than ever, as uh Ed's saying, to, to help your customer know how you feel about them. I heard, I heard a really good, uh, story recently. A friend of mind had a, had their dog pass away, which if you've ever had a dog you know how sad that can be. It's a, you know, it's a ... they're part of the family. And, uh, this brand, uh, w- had been sending out, uh, dog food over the mail, you know? The d-, through, they had ordered a, a subscription for dog food. And when the subscription stopped the woman sent the company a note saying, you know, "We don't need it anymore, my dog passed away." And a couple days later they received a bouquet of flowers saying, "We're so sorry that your dog passed away."
Fritz Grutzner:
Now, you could say, "Well, why would a company do that?" You know? They're not their customer anymore, 'cause they don't have a dog. But I can tell ya that she's planning on buying another dog and I think that she's a lifelong fan now of this brand that, in, in this time really took the effort to make, make her n- feel like they really cared about her.
Sara Kiley:
And, and I would add, my guess, too, is that after she received that she probably posted an online review about how wonderful that company is and, and I think-
Fritz Grutzner:
Exactly.
Sara Kiley:
... business really need to focus on that's, customer service. You know? It's people, people do unfortunately, you know, you're gonna hear more negative things than you are positive, but that is so far above and beyond, um, that people will take online and, and review it. And then, you know, go on Facebook and tell all their friends, like, "Oh my god. This is the greatest thing." And so you, those are very, very important. You'll get so much more out of that than whatever it cost that company to send, send that out to her. They're gonna get so much more out of that.
Tom Dott:
Yeah, and that's the, that's the plus factor of it in the sense that, you know, you do what you need to do to deliver on your product or service, but every time you can plus it, you just set yourself apart that much further from everybody else.
Mark Meloy:
Yeah, those are all great points, you guys, that's really ... I mean, there is so much more information that companies have about their customers by virtue of how they interact, how that customer interacts with them. It's, it's incredible how that, how it goes down to the, some of the finest details, as you perfectly described here.
Mark Meloy:
Fritz, what, what trends are you seeing in terms of types of projects and technology use and, and or communication channels?
Fritz Grutzner:
Well, in the, when the pandemic started we had, you know, branding is an easy thing to sort of put on hold for a little bit, uh, so we, we suffered a little bit. Um, but we, in the last three or four months we've seen business come back pretty strong in that, uh, companies that, that are surviving and doing well still understand they need to get consumer insights, they need a, a clear brand strategy, and they need to figure out their brand architecture for example.
Fritz Grutzner:
And sometimes when things are a little slow for companies it's a good time to, to take a step back and say, you know, "Have we defined our values really well? Have we defined our brand's story really well?" But one thing we're getting a lot of requests for, uh, recently is to help them map the customer experience, to map and, and, and, and figure out ways that along that customer journey, uh, you can make, you know, at the moments that matter you can do something that really, uh, stands out and really makes you memorable. Uh, I think that's something that's, is, it's really hot right now.
Fritz Grutzner:
But one thing, I, I, we worked with a company this last year that did direct selling. So, they would go into homes and they would sell cookware. Um, in little shows. So, good, and uh, so they figured out that, uh, you know, some of their folks had already figured out that through YouTube they could be doing these online webinars. Um, and when the pandemic hit, you know, you can't go into people's homes and do a cooking show anymore. So, it, it very quickly they figured out that we gotta push hard into this new opportunity to do webinars online.
Fritz Grutzner:
And they, you can imagine that the potential is huge, if instead of seeing maybe four or five people in a cooking show in their home, you know, now you can see a thousand or more people in your webinar. Um, with, with potential sale. So, um, I talked to the company president recently and he said, you know, business has never been better, if you can imagine that. And part of that, part of the tailwind they had is that cooking at home, you know, home cooking is, is back in, because we can't go out to restaurants anymore. But, um, you know, it's one example of a company that's really thrived during this pandemic.
Sara Kiley:
And, uh, I'll add to that, too. Um, Fritz you brought up kind of the customer journey. Um, and it is important because we're definitely seeing a, a, push with, with Midwest Family of, of trying to map that out and understand how do you get the customer from not knowing anything about you to becoming a raving fan? You know? And then they, they share that with their friends. So, but it's very important not to jump from, "We don't know anything about you," to "We expect you to be a raving fan and buy our product and spend all this money." There's touchpoints in between that you can set up with your marketing to, to make your customer comfortable with what you're trying to do.
Sara Kiley:
And so you need to, you need to build that up and you need to understand it as, as a business how people are getting where you want them to go, and that's what your, your marketing should kinda revolve around, is that path that they need to take.
Fritz Grutzner:
Agree.
Ed Peck:
I'll add in a situation very similar to the story that Fritz shared of a client of ours that is in the, uh, high end, uh, process meat, er, meat sales business. Um, prior to the pandemic, um, their largest market was, um, high end, uh, steak houses and, uh, restaurants. And of course with the, uh, pandemic that immediately changed. Um, and not only did that change for their customers, but it changed for their distribution system, their priority market et cetera.
Ed Peck:
We were able to help them, um, pivot by getting the messages into homes with more people, uh, ordering in food, ordering online, being more willing to buy frozen beef from a different location than their local grocery store. However, we had to be very careful, um, and think bigger picture of what's the world gonna be like as COVID starts settling down? And we certainly did not want to alienate those restaurants and, and, uh, chef- top chefs that were loyal followers. Um, and so we have evolved to engaging them, uh, keeping those, uh, shops, those restaurants, um, their brands, top of mind by sharing their expertise in a you do it yourself at home sort of version.
Ed Peck:
Knowing that those chefs will never be surpassed by, um, and amateur home cook, but they can help those home cooks make a better meal and at the same time say, "You know, I'm ... when pandemic is over, I'm willing to go to that restaurant 'cause I really, uh, got a great brand affiliation for that, and I want them to cook for me on a special night." And, um, you know, early indications are that that's really working. Of course, uh, it's too soon to know until, uh, we're much further along in the COVID pandemic recovery than we are today.
Tom Dott:
Hey, Mark, one thing I wanted to just quick add is that, I, I think as it relates to marketing and branding, I think a lot of companies always struggle with, you know, how do we do it? What's the right way to do it? How do we, how do we know it's effective? And I think because of all those variables that sometimes they perceive to be difficult to quantify they, they've shied away from it, or they've, they've tried to do it on the cheap. Whether it's just doing it in house and, and not really consulting with professionals, and I think one of the things that has become apparent ... when, what made me think about that is the stories that were being told and the different ways that people are now being forced to market is they've realized that we don't have the expertise, nor the resources, nor the technology to do it.
Tom Dott:
So, I, I really have seen more and more people who are starting to, um, engage more directly with, with marketing professionals to really, truly help them, um, cohesively and comprehensively build that brand and come up with, with a, with a coherent and consistent strategy, you know, as we come out of the pandemic here, and, and really understanding ... and I think maybe more so now than ever the, the value of branding and marketing and more importantly doing it with a professional.
Mark Meloy:
Great comments. Yeah. W-, um, we've had a series of podcasts to date and um kind of talking about kinda changes that needed to occur and the word that I always pops into my mind and I think you guys, um, s- sort of worked around it perfectly is the word "resilience." Right? I mean, when you, when you're faced with adversity, um, business people are, uh, driven and they are, and they are motivated to succeed and faced with changing variables, you know, you have to adjust and that's resiliency. And I think, I think it's described really well on, and it sounds like it's happening.
Mark Meloy:
Um, Sara, this question is to you. Um, I'm a finance guy. And so-
Sara Kiley:
(laughs)
Mark Meloy:
... how do you see clients tackling the need of reporting kind of the return of investment?
Sara Kiley:
Yeah, so, um, one thing I'll say is I'm, I'm glad we're, we're kinda seeing less businesses rely on just asking their customer when they walk in the door, "Hey, how did you hear about us?" Right? That's, that's probably the most unreliable, uh, way to, to go about business because as we're talking about there's so many marketing channels and most businesses are using more than one marketing channel. So, unless, you know, you're strictly sticking to one and that's the only place you're advertising, even that, it's gonna be unreliable because, you know, your customer's going to think they heard you from some place and they, you know, they didn't.
Sara Kiley:
Um, certainly over the, over the last couple of years there's been a drive more towards getting reporting and measuring, you know, return on investment and stuff, because a lot of the digital tools that people are using are more measurable than some of the more traditional, uh, tools that exist. But when, you know, we're, we're talking about business owners, um, and, and people like that, it, it you can't expect them to know everything about what they're seeing, right? It's, that's why you do as we're talking about more businesses are relying on experts to take them through that journey of understanding the reporting, understand the return on investment, which, you know, when you're looking at your marketing and where you're putting your, your dollars, but also your time, right? If you're doing seminars, are you getting something out of that?
Sara Kiley:
What is your goal? Right? Set, set your goals from the beginning and, and try to stick with them. What do you really, realistically, want to see for a return on investment? Um, and then make sure, you know, if you, you know that outcome and what you're looking, looking to achieve, make sure the reporting that you're getting and, and things you're measuring actually relate to that. Because I, I feel, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, kind of a detailed person. I like numbers and I like spreadsheets. I think a lot of people can, you know, get, you know, paralysis by analysis, right? Where you, you don't know what to do, because there's so much information there. If you focus on the more important aspects and the things that really matter to you for your business to grow, um, then I think that makes it easier than to determine what channels you're going to use for marketing, where you need to reach your customers, all of that can be determined and can be adjusted based on the information that you're seeing from your reporting.
Mark Meloy:
Great points. Ed, do you think companies are investing more money than they did ten years ago? How about ten months ago?
Ed Peck:
So, I think, uh, Sara made a great point about, um, people resources and, and we have to think of those as, as the same as money. Um, and, and in our business structure, um, deploying our team is, uh, you know, is money out of a company but it's, it's, um, basically to buy more human capital to get more things done. Um, and so forth. So, um, wh- I, I think of that question in both ways in that. And I feel proportionally there's probably not been a large, uh, change in that. I think as companies get bigger they spend more. As they, um, if they stay small, they stay, they spend about the same amount of time.
Ed Peck:
Um, I, I don't feel that there's been a significant change in the percentage of, say, uh, a company's budget that is going to, um, marketing, unless, you know, except for exceptions. A new product launch, um, a new acquisition, um, et cetera. Um, and so forth. But I think the real key is how that money is being spent. Um, and um, we have a, uh, almost a daily conversation about the old [nabman 00:23:07] days of working versus non working dollars. And that the reality is, and our belief is, you can't use th- those terms no longer have much relevance unless you redefine them.
Ed Peck:
Um, there's a lot more, uh, work that goes into a marketing, uh, marketing your brand and spend. It is not just purchased media. Um, and, and with all the new technologies, all the ways to, to, uh, get your brand out there, and the need, as Sara said, uh, a couple times, of making sure that it is all links together consistently, um, that takes a different kind of time and resources. Um, and, and certainly there's a, um, I think a shift in, uh, a major shift in how those resources are spent. They're probably, at the end of the day, um, not that much in how much, um, overall resources spent.
Fritz Grutzner:
I, I, if I could build on that, too, Ed and Sara, I think the, you know, there are some things now, today, that are much easier to measure the ROI in. You know, you can, w- start a new ad campaign, you can see if sales go up. You know? That's a pretty clear, uh, correlation between that. But, you know, if you're the president of a company, you know, in some ways it puts the value of, of putting a stake in the ground on what your core values are. You know?
Fritz Grutzner:
That, what's the pay off on that? And, and you may know that it's the right thing to do and you know that it's, it's an aligning tool for your employees, um, but you might not get an immediate pay off. Uh, I mean, even the, the example of the, the uh, dog food company, you know, sending a bouquet of flowers. You're probably not gonna get a, a pay off on that right away, but in the long run they're building equity in their brand. So, it, it there's always a balance. I think the ROI's really critical, but if that's all you look at ... What, as a marketing guy, uh, Mark, I, my job is often to get the finance guys to realize the value of the long term investment.
Mark Meloy:
(laughs)
Fritz Grutzner:
So ... I always make a play for that.
Mark Meloy:
[crosstalk 00:25:08] I think I've been in those conversations.
Fritz Grutzner:
When we're looking at those kind of activities and campaigns, um, uh, I agree, Fritz, uh, there, there are soft and there are hard measurements. There are subjective and there are objective measurements. And I think for us we've learned, or I've always said the key is to determine, um, before you open the gate what will those measurements be? How will we know if we're successful? And if they're subjective and soft, like, it contributes to our brand value. Um, it's okay for that to be a measurement. If you say, "Okay, in two months will we feel better about the work that we put out there, or the product that we put out there?" And if you've said at the beginning that that's that's success to you, it should be considered success.
Fritz Grutzner:
I, I know none of us want to be in the situation of saying, "Oh, well, we didn't get the, the numbers to meet the bottom line, but didn't you feel good about it?" You know? (laughter) Well, after, after the fact if that's what you're saying, you know, that does seem a little suspicious, but maybe it, it wasn't really achieving what you intended to. And so I think really understanding what you want to accomplish before you've started is critical.
Sara Kiley:
And the, and I think that relates, too, with there is a difference between a branding campaign, um, you know, which is more long term and you're not, you don't necessarily see immediate results from that. So, setting your goals and expectations is going to vary significantly based on the tactic you're using but what, what you're trying to get out of that as well. So, branding's gonna probably take longer, if you have immediate sales or, you know, things that you have going on that you need immediate people through the doors, obviously you're gonna measure that differently than you would if it's a longer term thing.
Mark Meloy:
Good. Thanks. Those were great comments and a little bit of a, a segue to my next question, Fritz, and it goes to you. Talk about branding and its role in attracting and retaining employees. Is there a correlation in what's important to consider in that regard?
Fritz Grutzner:
Yeah, that's, that's never been more important. Uh, we, we worked with a large energy company on a, on a major, major re-branding project and it was, uh, led by the HR director. And a part of that, I mean, and I think if you talked to him he saw it as much as a culture change project as a branding, a re-branding project because, um, they really wanted to attract the very best talent to their company and, and so it was, you know, partly, uh, it was an external communication exercise, but it was every bit as much of an internal, uh, exercise. And it was making sure that the culture was moving in the direction that they wanted to go so they could attract the right people.
Fritz Grutzner:
I think there was a time when you could, you know, there was a time when companies could say, maybe tell a story about themselves that wasn't completely true. Um, and I think those days are gone. The, you know, imagine you worked today at a big glass building and that the consumer can see everything that you're doing inside and they know it, through social media they know everything that you're doing. So, it really, today, branding has become, you know, who you are and how you behave, and how your employees behave, uh, uh, is so critical. So, there's a, there's a huge link.
Fritz Grutzner:
I saw a study recently on, um, that what a, what a brand believes, or what a brand, what a company believes is e- of equal importance to how well the brand performs. If you can imagine that. So, it's not just about cranking out a good product, but it's about putting a stake in the ground and saying, you know, this is what our company believes. You know, it's why Patagonia shuts down on Black Friday 'cause they say you should go outside and enjoy the outdoors, 'cause that's what we believe in. It's really what we stand for.
Fritz Grutzner:
So, it's, it's critical, it, I think the HR folks and the marketing folks should be connected at the hip when thinking about, um, you know, how do we tell our story. Because it's, it's an internal and an external story.
Tom Dott:
And isn't part of telling that story the, they why of, you know, why they do what they do? And, and why they're so passionate about it?
Fritz Grutzner:
Absolutely. You know, and Tom you know this, as a long time member of United Way, um, you know, United Way, for many years, sort of wanted to be, you know, a good force within the community, um, but they didn't want to offend people. They didn't want to take a stand that was too controversial because your funders on the left and your funders on the right might be offended by the, the stand that you take.
Fritz Grutzner:
And those days are gone, too. Uh, you know? You, you have to take a stand. And, you know, United Way fortunately can take a stand that they really want to, you know, tackle the toughest challenges that we have in [inaudible 00:29:48] county. Um, and, and, and you know, go at the core of the problem. Um, you know, that's a, that's a position that, that most people can get behind. But, they, they've started, United Way has, is now not just being neutral, like Switzerland, they're actually taking a stand and they're, um, you know, looking at policy, public policy and how they can play a role in public policy as well.
Mark Meloy:
Tom, how should companies be thinking about branding and marketing in the midst of a pandemic? Um, but also when we emerge from that pandemic?
Tom Dott:
Yeah, that's a, it's an interesting question and I, I think there's a huge opportunity because there's, there was so much learned during all of this in terms of, of ... [inaudible 00:30:34] before about, about their, their own company, you know, their employees, you know, what they did during the pandemic for their customers, for their employees, there, there's a huge opportunity to leverage that going forward as it relates to what your brand is and what's important to you as a, as a company and what your culture really is.
Tom Dott:
And I also think that, you know, uh, w- maybe a little contrarian right now when maybe things are still kinda tight from a, from a dollars perspective but, you know, some of this is a race, too, where you know you, you want to be out front. You want to be the one that's doing this now. Y- if you wait till the time is right you're probably gonna miss the opportunity to, to really emerge as a leader in your industry and as a segment so I, I think there's a tremendous opportunity right now for, for people to emerge as, you know, as the cream of the crop from, you know, from the Phoenix from the ashes, if you will. But, but you wanna be, but you wanna be first. You, you know? You don't want to be last and just like everybody else. I mean, I think you have the opportunity to really set the stage and raise the bar, as to, you know, who's gonna be an industry leader. And that's gonna require, um, some, some confidence and some investment to, to do that.
Ed Peck:
Yeah, I would just add onto that, there are a few kind- things that happen in the world that strip people as a whole down to raw emotional concern and the pandemic is one of them. Um, in my lifetime perhaps the other one that comes to mind would be September 11th. Um, but when, when we all as people are so raw and exposed emotionally, as I said before, we are craving, we are eager, we are like pathetically looking for things that we can cling onto and as Tom said, your brand needs to be one of those first pillars and rocks that they can emotionally start re-building. You can't wait until you find out where there, they end up in their journey coming out, because someone else will have already taken advantage of that.
Ed Peck:
So, you need to take great care of your good customers so that they know that you're there, it's also a great time to be ahead of your competitors if they're not there when their customers that have been loyal to them really need s- someone to trust, whether it's a simple, uh, food product that you just rely on, or a service orientation on we are all emotionally raw and bare right now. And we need brands, um, to build around us and feel like they're part of our lives as well, and, and there's no better time to do that than right now while we're all looking for that.
Sara Kiley:
And, and I'll say, too, when it comes down to being emotional and raw I think the challenging part is gonna be that we're all that way in different ways. Um, so, you know, looking at my, you know, co-workers and other people that I know, some are extremely anxious to, you know, go to restaurants, get into, you know, businesses and do different things. I'm much, much more reserved than that. Um, and my family is. So, I think it's gonna be a challenge, because you're gonna need to address, you know, safety moving forward, especially with the vaccination. How are you gonna address safety moving forward and help those customers that are still really nervous, um, and, and you know scared to, you know, be social again?
Sara Kiley:
I mean, uh, you know, it's, it's a really interesting time. And so there's gonna be various types of customers that you're gonna have, you're gonna deal with, and I think safety and talking about that and understanding that is gonna be really important.
Mark Meloy:
Yeah, great point. So, this is for all of the panelists. Uh, for the business owner that's out there, not certain if they are doing the right things, what's the one bit of advice you have for them? And Sara I'll start with you.
Sara Kiley:
Sure. I think one of the things we, we haven't, um, covered much of is, is investment level and not spreading a budget too thin. Right? When you're investing in a tactic I think it's important to be fully committed to that and if it's only one tactic, 'cause that's all that you can afford right now, there's nothing wrong with that if you're actually investing in it and you're committed to it. Don't start adding more ... don't, you know, just kind of dip your toe here and dip your toe there because you're kind of, you know, you're not gonna see the results that you expect and then you're gonna think that that, that tactic or, you know, marketing, you know, doesn't work, which isn't necessarily fair if you haven't invested what it takes into it. So, don't spread the budget too thin. Make sure you're committed to what you're doing and then add it on.
Mark Meloy:
Ed?
Ed Peck:
Um, well, I think as Sara made, uh, two great points in, in uh, the previous question and this one of, of the audiences that you're trying to reach, the customers, um, uh, et cetera that you're trying to reach are gonna be in very different, um, states and, um, and adaption of coming back, whatever it may be, and your resources will only go so far. Um, Fritz mentioned before, um, the, the advice of looking at customer journeys and, and so forth and I, I equate that to, um, work that we also do with customer journeys and kinda, you're gonna have to kind of prioritize, um, where, which customers at what stage of the journey, um, is your priority and your resources should match that.
Ed Peck:
Um, but at the end of the day I guess my one piece of advice is, is be authentic to, um, what your business is. Um, I believe that you can be much more efficient with your dollars if you're authentic because first of all you're not having to market around who you are or create an impression of something that you're not. Um, it's, there's that saying it's easy to remember what you said if you tell the truth. Um, that applies also for how you position your, your brand. Um, being authentic you never have to spend time or money, um, uh, changing, you may have to change, let me re-phrase that. Um, I think if you are authentic you can build upon that every dollar, every hour put into that is built towards something greater, um, when you're authentic and I think that's just a great way and that is what I think, um, every, uh, human being is looking for right now, are people and brands to be authentic for them.
Mark Meloy:
Good. Fritz, how about you?
Fritz Grutzner:
Well, I would underscore what Sara and Ed said. You know, focus and be authentic, uh, are really, really important. It, it seems to me that the underlying common denominator from this entire discussion, though, today was really about be human. Um, and there's probably no important, more important time than now to be human. You know? People are, as Ed said, you're emotions are raw, they're feeling new emotions, and a brand that can really connect now in an emotional way, uh, is gonna win in the long run. I mean, you're, you're, your head follows your heart. So, if you win their heart you're gonna win their head eventually.
Fritz Grutzner:
But I know what, uh, one thing that I always think about is, um, you know, if, if you're really facing a tough decision as a, a company president, um, sometimes the best thing to do is to, to bring the consumer into it. Bring your customer into it. And that's, it's easy to do that these days. It's cheap and easy and quick. You know, you can do a quick survey, you can, you can test a concept without developing the product, the, uh, all the way. So, uh, in our, in our companies, you know, the consumer always wins. If you, if you have two vying, two p- points of view and t- two parties, uh, arguing for two different directions, you know, take it to the consumer, 'cause that, to me, that's a really critical thing to do. And today it's easy to do that. Easy and fast.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Tom, you get the last shot.
Tom Dott:
I get the last word? Oh, that's dangerous. Um-
Sara Kiley:
(laughs)
Tom Dott:
I, uh, you know, given, given all of the things that, you know, we as bankers saw companies and individuals do during the pandemic, I, I guess the one piece of advice that I would give to people is celebrate. I mean, it, it's been nothing short of, of amazing to see the things that, that we've seen and, and the way that companies have, have, uh, treated their employees, looked out for their employees, looked out for their customers, um, and how they've pivoted and adapted and, and persevered through all of this.
Tom Dott:
I mean, it, it's nothing short of amazing. And, and I think that there again there's some great opportunities here for some storytelling that will, will strengthen that, that brand and, and, and reinforce the authenticity of, of what they're all about, 'cause at the end of the day it's really all about the people that are delivering the product and service, and, and these people clearly are passionate about what they do and, and what they've done. And it's, it's nothing short of amazing and, and you should be celebrated.
Mark Meloy:
Thanks. Well, this has really been an all star conversation. Uh, I wanna thank all of you for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences today. And to all of you, our audience, thanks for listening to this conversation. We hope you found it useful and applicable in your own business. If you'd like to learn more and, and better ways yet to do things talk to one of our experts, um, and please let your First Business banker make that connection for you.
Mark Meloy:
And finally, let us know if there are additional topics you'd like to hear about. And please join us next time on the First Business bank podcast.