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Bonnie Van Epps:
Welcome to The First Business Bank Podcast, I'm Bonnie Van Epps and I'll be your host for today's episode about advocacy for women in leadership. Where we'll talk about what advocacy has looked like over the years for women in business, how we can be better advocates for changes in our environment, and how a focus on advocacy can effectively shape careers for future generations. To help explore this topic further, I have Carol Sanders, Jan Eddy, and Laurie Benson with me today. Would each of you please take a minute to introduce yourself to our listeners? Laurie, we'll start with you.
Laurie Benson:
Hi, I'm Laurie Benson, nurse entrepreneur, business and community leader, and Board director. I currently serve as the Executive Director of the Nurses on Boards Coalition and LSB Unlimited, my consulting company. Prior to that, I was co-founder and CEO of a technology systems integrator. And all of the things that I do today fall under the umbrella of leadership; elevating people, ideas, and organization.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Excellent. We're so thrilled to have you with us today.
Laurie Benson:
Thank you, we're so excited to be here.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Carol, can you go next?
Carol Sanders:
Thanks for having us Bonnie, we really appreciate spending this time with you. My name is Carol Sanders and currently I serve as a Board director, not only for First Business, but for Alliant Energy and a global financial services company by the name of RenaissanceRe Limited. I spent 30 years of my career in the insurance industry. Born and raised in Wisconsin and educated there too. We now spend about half of our time in Wisconsin and the other in Florida, again, serving on Boards and also consulting in the insurance and technology world. Thanks again for having me, Bonnie.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Thank you. Jan.
Jan Eddy:
Well, Bonnie, thanks for inviting us today. I'm Jan Eddy, I spent my entire career in the information technology industry, going as far back as the early 70s. I was a coder back in the early 70s and I ended up having opportunities presented to me throughout my career. And those that I said yes to led me on to even bigger and better things. I retired, officially, from being a CEO in 2006 and that was after 20 years running two early stage software companies, both of which had successful exits. For the past 15 years, I've been an active Angel investor and a huge fan and promoter of increasing access to capital in Wisconsin's entrepreneurial ecosystem. And I have a particular passion for women-led, early and growth stage businesses.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Well, that gives us such a perfect place to start. Thank you all for being here, and thank you, Jan, for that introduction. So starting with you, Jan, what does it mean this idea of advocacy for women in leadership? What does that mean to you, personally? And how has it played a role in your career growth?
Jan Eddy:
Well, that's such a big, big question. Early in my career, I would not have thought for two seconds that I could advocate for anybody or anything in business, because I was so new to business. And if it were not for the people that I reached out to, that were advocates for me, believe me I would never have been able to raise any of the Angel investment or venture capital money that we raised to keep the companies going. I just felt like I was just the beneficiary of the most wonderful support system. And of course, at the time, back in the early 80s, most of the power and wealth in the business community was held by men. So the advocates that I had early in my career were men. There were women as well, but often for different, particular aspects of whatever I was trying to accomplish at the time throughout my career.
Jan Eddy:
So just as an overall, big picture thing, what I have felt over the years, and when I felt I had something to offer back, I plowed a lot of new ground in the high tech industry, in the software industry, and in the women-led business component of both of those. And I really learned a lot of lessons along the way and felt that it was my responsibility to make things easier for those women who came behind me. So everything that I've done for advocacy since then, during my career and since my career really ended in the software industry, has been really being an advocate for all of the things that I thought just were too difficult. Things should not have been that difficult for a young woman trying to start and grow a software company here in Wisconsin. It just was so difficult. So everything in my advocacy has been trying to make it easier for those that come behind me.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Excellent. Such a great description of really paving the way for those to come. Laurie, how about for you?
Laurie Benson:
Well, I share Jan's comment about perception, that this is a big topic. It's also an important one. And in today's world, there's opportunities that call out for advocacy, for a number of different causes, for different scenarios that we can see playing out differently if we and our colleagues get involved. So I don't talk about advocacy very much. I think probably Carol and Jan and I would all say that we quietly, and often anonymously, advocate in ways that make something better for others. So on a personal level, I have always, ever since in nursing school when I learned about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, and that you start at the basic level; food, clothing and shelter, before you advance to higher levels of aspiration. And I have gravitated toward helping advocate for people for those basic needs, because I feel so strongly that no matter what anyone's circumstances are, they have a story that led them to where they are today. And I just want everyone to have choices. And I do my darnedest not to weigh in on my opinion of those choices that they make.
Laurie Benson:
I just want them to have those choices in their life. So supporting those basic needs areas has always been very, very important to me. As far as in my career, like Jan, I was one of a small number of female leaders in the industry, but I found that I didn't even really ... This may sound naive, but I didn't notice it that much. I was excited when I got to meet my male colleagues who were very successful and they were willing to sit down with me for three hours after a conference and show me their business plan and how they were diversifying. And I just never felt like I was an outsider looking in. They knew I was interested and they taught me a lot. And I credit that with so much I could bring back to my business, bring back to our customers. And I loved those experiences. But I also think it's important to recognize, when we're advocating, sometimes when you might be the only female in a situation, that nobody's going to compare you to anybody else.
Laurie Benson:
They don't know how to compare you. So it isn't like, well, why didn't this person get to do it instead of you? They don't have anyone to compare to so you're a safe choice. So I've always found that I can advocate great when I'm selected to represent peers, colleagues, customers, and they know I don't have a personal agenda. So that no personal agenda, not being comparable to anybody else, and people get excited about, well, where we're going to go? And this is going to be different. And that path for advocacy is one that we've all traveled on, some days with a head hung low and despair and deep care and concern for those who are affected. And yet, you keep taking those steps forward. And all of a sudden, when we come together and collaborate as advocates for people and causes, this is how our world gets better.
Laurie Benson:
And this is how things change. And so, I think probably as an advocate, having a positive view of the future and giving people hope, and having a belief, and demonstrating that with hands on, walking side by side, builds our character. And it changes the shape of, not only our work, our lives, but those who come after us. And I just feel like this is such a time where our willingness to help each other should be embraced and emboldened and encouraged at every opportunity. And forever I'll be grateful for all the people that advocated for me. And sometimes I don't even know who they were. And somebody will say, "Well, you know why you're here?" And I'm like, "No." "Well, someone that you know said that you'd be ideal for this." And we don't want to let somebody down, so we say yes. And then I just think it's really wonderful to know there's so many people that, quietly, behind the scenes, have cleared paths and continue to do it. It's some of our greatest contributions through our humanity.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Carol, how about for you? What has advocacy meant to you personally and how has it played a role in your career growth?
Carol Sanders:
Sure, thanks. I love Laurie's theme, especially ... I hate to say this ladies, but toward the second half of our career, I don't want to say we're at the end of our careers, but that paying it forward has become so natural. And that it's something that we just sort of expect from ourselves. But early on, I'll start with the fact that my parents were probably my strongest advocates in, obviously my upbringing, but their passion for education and wanting me to always be open to learning and to being brave enough to take opportunities when presented. So I want to to credit my parents. Early in my career, however, I had a gentleman, actually that I worked for at Secura Insurance, by the name of John [Bekowski 00:11:38], who simply spent the time to sit down and talk to me about all the opportunities that lie ahead.
Carol Sanders:
So there I was, at that point in time what I thought was a very relatively young 25 year old tax manager at an insurance company, wondering how I ever ended up in the insurance industry. And had this wonderful person in my life, who had been in the insurance industry for probably 30 years at that time, talk to me about all the opportunities that could potentially lie ahead of me. And what he did was, by taking his time, opened my eyes and made me realize how powerful your time can be in terms of advocacy. And so when I learned that lesson from him, and many that followed throughout my career ... And as a matter of fact, I'm still in touch with that gentleman today. I realized that if I took the time with someone that I worked with, or someone that I knew in the community, or a cause. It doesn't have to be just women in leadership, it can be something that you're passionate about.
Carol Sanders:
But if you take the time and you are passionate about either the individual or the opportunities that what may lie ahead for them, or the cause that you're working on in the community, advocacy becomes very, very gratifying and empowering and you actually want to do more of it, because you take great pride and great joy in seeing others succeed. Or lifting others up. In the workplace, a lot of times, you may see a woman that you've spent some time working one on one with, or a woman in leadership group, and you may see them get promoted. And you just have this moment ... And of course you celebrate with them as they're promoted, but you take a really deep breath and say, "Wow, I knew she could do it." Or you help in the community for Laurie basic needs fundraising. And you are passionate about it, and you advocate for the cause, and you put your entire heart into it, and you see the organization reach its fundraising goal.
Carol Sanders:
And so advocacy, I believe, breeds advocacy because of the positive outcomes. And I think, at this point in our career, we're all at the pay it forward point and it is one of the best places to be. Let me tell you. And so, having those early life, early childhood and my fantastic parents, and then early in my career, somebody just taking the time to advocate for me, made me realize how powerful and how valuable it is. And boy, let me tell you, I've garnered just a lot of professional and personal satisfaction over the years by spending time with whatever it is, or whoever it is, that I'm passionate about. And the outcomes pay back dividends.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Yeah. Carol, you touched on such interesting facet of advocacy and you started to talk a little bit about what effective advocacy can look like when it's done well and how you celebrate that. I'm curious, Laurie or Jan, what other qualities do you think contribute to being an effective advocate?
Jan Eddy:
I'll jump in and say that you have to really feel what you're being an advocate about, it can't just be words, so oftentimes it's your actions. And one of example I'll give is, I've felt very strongly, and still do to this day, about being actively engaged in the community. That basically all boats rise. If you can give to those who are, perhaps, less fortunate or through bad circumstances have fallen on hard times. So not only would I gladly serve on nonprofit boards and things like that, but I gave my employees, long before there was a term called PTO, I gave my employees, my coworkers, an opportunity to pick something that they were passionate about and they could take X number of hours a week or a month to pursue that and still get paid for it. Because I felt that ... I mean, whether they would coach the little league team or whatever it was. And they were very open about what their passion was. There was no writing it down.
Jan Eddy:
They saw me being passionate and doing things in a certain way. And I just gave them permission to find their own passion and do it the same way. And to this day, that just makes my heart warm. To know that, perhaps some of those young people that worked for me, that might have been the first time they'd really had an opportunity to reach into the community and give back. So there's just so many different ... I could go on and on, as I'm sure Carol and Laurie could too, there are just so many ways that you either lead by example and hope other people catch on, or you actually lay an opportunity in front of them that you hope they take.
Carol Sanders:
Jan, you speak with pride about the employees and the people that you worked with and the opportunities that you provided to them. I'm extremely proud to say that when I was at Jewelers Mutual, we created a Women in Leadership Forum and it was an advocacy group. It was early on, it was before they were commonplace, especially in the insurance industry. Which has for decades, for centuries, been very male dominated. And I'm very proud to say that one of those women is a COO and another is a CFO. And now I'm involved in the Women's Insurance Networking Group, which is a global organization of women in the insurance industry.
Carol Sanders:
From CEOs in Europe, to Chief Actuaries here in the United States, empowering not only those future women leaders, but one another. And providing insight into opportunities and sharing our passion for causes. And of course, getting together to break bread and share our experiences. But there's real life success stories among the three of us, and so, none of us take it lightly. Advocacy, as was said early on, is a huge topic and we could talk for hours and hours, but there are real life success stories. Again, if you take the time and you're passionate about it, there will be fantastic outcomes.
Laurie Benson:
Yeah, that's such a great example. And as I think about this conversation, at the beginning we're saying, "Where is this going to go?" Well, I think of weren't exactly the right place, because it brings out advocacy from the heart, advocacy from the head, and all of the different ways it plays out. But Bonnie, as you ask does success look like in advocacy? I think you have to see it to believe it. So, like Carol, my parents demonstrated it at an early age. They both died young, but their examples of advocacy for everyone they met along their path inspires me every day. I think of Lauren Martinson, our Chairman of the Board and Angel investor, who taught me how to read a ballot sheet. And that did take more than a few hours. And for just investing that time. So first of all, we have to recognize, we might be the first example of advocacy that someone has in their life.
Laurie Benson:
And whether it's an appreciation that they've experienced in their work or their life, or the first time, I think that we need to be cognizant that there's some gaps to fill, that everyone is worthy of an advocate. The other thing I would say is that, in advocating for others, that we got to be flexible. Because I think we've all met advocates that, here they come, and they're going to tell us what they need, et cetera. That listening and flexibility, because there's different ways to achieve these outcomes. And so I think that flexibility is something we learn with maturity, but we really have to be open and listen to others so it becomes a shared path. Or for respectfully differing. And so, I think that dimension of advocacy, being flexible, it doesn't have to be our way, but we want to find a way for the benefit of the good of the whole.
Laurie Benson:
And then lastly, I would just like to say that one of the best examples of business and personal advocacy coming together is something that I experienced firsthand at Jan's home. And I know she has a name for it, but she invited entrepreneurs, women entrepreneurs, to come to her home and have what I would call this mini showcase of their products and services. And she invited all kinds of business leaders that she knew from her personal and professional network to come to her home. She welcomed us all into her home. Each of those entrepreneurs had the opportunity to meet other leaders, and I know some of those connections that have continued for advocacy, and I know that they got a lot of sales because we sure weren't going to leave there without buying something that night. But I think it's just a great example. Jan, what is the name of that?
Jan Eddy:
I called it Sip and Shop.
Laurie Benson:
Sip and Shop. I didn't want to miss that. But Jan, you might be surprised I remember that so profoundly.
Jan Eddy:
I do, Laurie.
Laurie Benson:
And many do. And I really think that it's just great to bring that home. With the opportunities we give others, people remember for a long time. it's a form of encouragement.
Jan Eddy:
That was kind of you to bring that up, Laurie. Thank you.
Laurie Benson:
Yes.
Carol Sanders:
Here's another real life, First Business advocacy story that was not only very flexible, but very long in coming to, I guess, complete fruition. So when I was at Secura Insurance, very early in my career, this was over 25 years ago, I was serving as treasurer at that point in time and I had accountability to our board of directors. And the committee that I had to present to and serve as liaison was the investment committee. And a gentleman by the name of Jerry Smith was the chairman of that committee and served on the Secura Insurance Board of Directors. And Mr. Smith provided fantastic advocacy. That was the first time I had to present in front of a Board, and oh, I was frightened and I was so concerned about any little mistake we'd make in the presentation materials.
Carol Sanders:
And Jerry, again, took the time and was very flexible, as Laurie said. He took his own time and mentored and coached me, and then was very flexible because Boards just come into management's lives episodically, so of course I'd only see Jerry at that point in time. About four times a year. But over the course of 25 years, I would get a note or a phone call from Jerry if I would get a new job or a promotion, or Jerry heard that my husband, Ed and I, had moved or something exciting. We ran into one another at a few retirement parties along the way. And lo and behold, about five or six years ago, I picked up the phone and there was the connection again to Jerry Smith, of course, the founder of First Business. And here I am, now, serving on the Board of the company that he formed. So there's the perfect First Business advocacy story and real life outcome.
Jan Eddy:
Well, I hope you don't mind. You've just triggered another example, I just have to tell you. So my introduction to Jerry Smith came from a small committee that we served on. We had $400,000 in HUD money and we were on a committee that had to disperse that money in $10,000 increments. We could not have come from more diametrically opposed positions in those debates and discussions. And I really don't know if I said this out loud or if I just thought it, but I was thinking, "I'm just going to have to leap over this table and grab him by the tie." So our first working relationship experience really, it wasn't contentious, but it was very different. I learned from him, he learned from me, no doubt. And a few years later, when he was starting the bank, then he gave me a call. And I just want to do a shout out to Jerry and his total commitment to diversity.
Jan Eddy:
Because even in the formation of that very first board of directors, he had people from different industries, for profit, nonprofit. And I remember him distinctly telling me that our decisions are going to be better with all the people around this table. And that has continued throughout. I can't remember a time when the bank Board itself was not of the same ... built the same way. So I'm extremely proud of the association I've had with First Business and even more proud that Jerry Smith reached out and tapped me on the shoulder way back when. It really set the stage for, not just my learning, but opportunities that other people approached me about Board positions as well.
Carol Sanders:
Quite an advocate.
Jan Eddy:
Yes.
Bonnie Van Epps:
Well, I heard so much great advice and insight from the three of you today around advocacy. Around the time that you give, the passion that you have, and really paving the way to pay it forward for others. Which all of you did today and I'm so incredibly grateful for. So thank you so much for participating in this really important discussion. And I'd also like to thank our audience members for listening today. Be sure to visit us at firstbusiness.bank to check out other resources we offer for business owners and leaders. We invite you to experience the advantage with First Business Bank. If there's a way we can help, please reach out to us.
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